Forum:Tiberium

This is very important. According to Wikipedia:

"... The significance of the heavy particles within Tiberium's crystal lattice is that they are the key to the matter transmutation process - Tiberium's most interesting property. Because of the high mass and energy of these particles, when Tiberium comes into contact with other matter, the particles at the boundaries of its lattice randomly collide with the nuclei of the target matter, smashing it to pieces (in the case of smaller nuclei), or incrementally knocking protons or neutrons off (in the case of heavier nuclei). Somehow, the Tiberium is able to capture a fraction of the protons and/or neutrons that are ejected during this collision process and incorporate them into its own structure, thus growing. Whenever a muon or tauon collides with an atomic nucleus, fission occurs, which results in the random production of alpha, beta and gamma radiation, as well as other forms of electromagnetic radiation (such as infrared). During the transmutation process, nuclei that Tiberium has come into contact with may be changed into nuclei with different (usually fewer) numbers of protons or neutrons. The result is a complete elemental transformation."-The C&C Science Bible (EALA)

As a Caltech Student, I know that this is absolutely crazy, for several reasons, which are listed below:

1. If atomic nucleii were smashed to pieces, that would imply that the protons and neutrons were freed completely. If this is done to elements of greater than iron atomic weight, it implies that an extreme amount of energy is released. If so, Tiberium is the most phenomenal energy containment device in existance. Who cares about plasma or rockets? Tiberium makes even nuclear weaponry look obselete. Only Tiberium could absorb Tiberium rounds. And one may forget about harvesting Tiberium, as the energies presumably released would destroy the refinery - and the base it is attached to. Nuclear_binding_energy

2. The particles supposedly have high mass and energy, but whomever wrote this is thinking in the wrong terms. It is true that high energy particles might collide and bounce off the target nucleii, but nucleii are never smashed. What happens in a particle accelerator incident is that targets are bombarded with high energy particles, which causes radioactive decay. Particle_accelerator - See high energy physics, and notice that the high energy beams actually only produce radioactive isotopes, they don't smash things to pieces.

3. The captured protons and neutrons flying out in every direction would be equivalent to low energy (I hope low energy) cosmic rays, equivalent to some of what's produced in a particle accelerator. Only the Mammoth Tank and the Titan (with its raised crew compartment), would have a chance of getting their crew through alive. Cosmic_rays

4. Smashing iron and other low mass elements down to their protons and neutrons requires an extreme amount of energy - yet Tiberium seems to absorb organic material (primarily composed of Carbon, Oxygen, Hydrogen, and Nitrogen), with no ill effects or tempering of the Tiberium. Supernova (Note that it takes gamma rays to decompose things.

5. This contradicts known information, such as the 'roots' of Tiberium.

6. Fission is normally started with a neutron. A muon, which would have the net effect of converting one proton into a neutron, might do the job, admittedly, but no where has it been explained why a muon would be produced. In fact, Tiberium CANNOT generate muons (which are 207 times as heavy as electrons, and negatively charged), without violating conservation of charge. Muon

7. The Tauon (or Tau Lepton), is similarly negatively charged, and faces the same trouble as the Muon. Tauon

For both 6 and 7, Conservation_of_Charge

8. There's no way alpha, beta, and gamma rays would be randomly produced. If the description is to be believed, then atoms are actually smashed, in which case, all of the electrons go flying out as beta rays, but since no two protons or neutrons are together, there is no alpha and beta decay. It would not surprise me if a ton of gamma rays were also involved, given the extreme nuclear binding energies involved.

9. Alpha and Beta rays correspond to Helium nucleii and free electrons, respectively. They are not electromagnetic radiation of any form.

10. Removing neutrons and protons might not change the substance completely. If it had the same amount of electrons, then the previous and afterward incarnations of the substance would behave similarly (in the way that F- is similar to Ne).

Finding some way to justify the first paragraph makes the effort put in to rationalize RA2's inclusion into the Tiberian Universe look trivial. Comments?

--Dthaiger 01:58, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not that much of a physics genius as you are so I can't really judge whether you or they are right. However, you might be forgetting about something here: This is pure fiction! There is no such thing as Tiberium and all EA does is trying to make their fiction seem more real. In this case presumably with some pseudo-science and mumbo-jumbo. The average fan will not know the difference between your statement and what they are telling. And to most people it won't matter, as long as Tiberium 'works'. I suppose what more people are worried about is that Tiberium is no longer plant-like but rather a solely crystal structure.

Still, I do realize that we are trying to create a encyclopedia that assumes this is the real world. But if EA says Tiberium works this way we can either accept it or stick with the old Westwood Tiberium. --Agaiz 10:58, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that the average person will notice this. Anyone with much knowledge about the subject will realize at least point number 8, and even if they don't know that, they'll probably realize that it's just technical jargon. And I'm no Physics Genius. --Dthaiger 14:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd appreciate it if one of you could post the top ten list (not As a Caltech student ...) somewhere where EA might read it. What do you think? --Dthaiger 16:08, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, compared to most other people (non-physics-students/professors...) you are a genius, it's all just a matter of definition :-) I've just read over some articles but it's really hard if you are not into the whole subject. So I can't really help you on this one. I also asked a friend of mine who was a lot better in high school physics than I was but he didn't know about most of the stuff either.

Why should we post this list as a non-Caltech student? I mean if people ask questions about it, we can't answer them. Also I doubt that on the EA forum more than one or two people will actually know what we are talking about. It'll be just a mess with some kiddies an trolls there. But I might ask some people in another C&C forum about this. --Agaiz 16:47, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

And anyway, assuming we are following Wikipedia's policies roughly, then we shouldn't write in so much technical data- we can't assume that the majority of people reading the Tiberium page are as clever as Dthaiger, so we just keep a descriptopn of what Tiberium does, and not too much on how it does it.--Snow93 18:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree - in fact, that's how I propose that we deal with the firestorm walling issue. It does (X,Y,Z), but our sources have not yet penetrated far enough into GDI's command structure to tell us how it does it. --Dthaiger 00:11, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, if this is done by MIT, it sure looks like a bad job from them. What can you expect from the 'Other' institute of technolgy? --Dthaiger 00:13, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

It's on the EA forum now, has gotten 6 replies in about 30 minutes, mostly spam... I love discussing with trolls *rollseyes* --Agaiz 09:05, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I can't believe it. The thread picked up 5 expletives. I really didn't make that list to listen to some, and unfortunately, I can't ban them for using it like I could here. It's so immature. :-(. --Dthaiger 04:04, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks anyway. By the way, the laws of physics per se don't apply to some of the points above. Alpha particles are defined to be helium nucleii, and not electromagnetic radiation - that's just the term for it. --Dthaiger 06:12, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

It is funny. Apparently I do not need to give away my real name to register for EA games. I may decide to do that, so you do not have to post things for me. Thanks though, --Dthaiger 06:21, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I guess that's good ... before I post more untrue stuff (like you being a physics student...) :-p --Agaiz 07:58, 29 July 2006 (UTC)