Talk:Command & Conquer Wiki:Canon

Red Alert
Before we do anything, we need to decide if TWI comes after the Allied RA1 campaign or the Soviet one. Then we can decide if we include RA2 or not. Whatever happens, Generals is rubbish, as normal (Ok it's fun, but the story is irrelevant to CnC Wiki. In case you were wondering, the GLA structures page here is a backup because the Wikipedia one was going to be deleted).

Current Works
I myself are doing some scratchwork of fictional makeup of Storyline-threading. It was originally work of unknown, distributed by Playbacker and KevCat, uploaded in GameFaqs. I'll paste the RA history here. RA2 is not done yet.

"There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others"

~ Niccol?Machiavelli

The Birth Of The Command and Conquer Alternate Universe: Red Alert

1. Introduction:

May, 1945 was the end of World War II in European Theatre. The defeat of Adolph Hitler and the utter destruction of Germany divided once mighty nation to half. August, 1945 was the end of World War II in Pacific Theatre. The flight of the Enola Gay over Hiroshima and Nagasaki caused destruction out of the scale of human eyes. The surrender of Japan officially ended the World War II. The extermination of over 6 million Jewish people and several hundreds of thousands of other people that were marked for death by the Nazi ideology was showing how brutal a human being can do to other human being. 5 years of war that ravaged the European continent, drew the United States of America into a massive naval battle against Japan, caused the first nuclear strikes in history and resulted in the loss of over 30 million human lives. Up to here, reality as we know it and the reality of the alternate Universe of Command and Conquer are completely parallel…… until 1949, 4 years after the end of the Second World War. During this year, in a classified military research facility at Trinity, New Mexico, a chain of events was set into motion that separated our reality of the Command and Conquer Universe. The person who was responsible was a man known as Albert Einstein.

2. The Paradox Equation:

A genius mathematician, scientist, and theorist who lived in the early part of the 20th Century created the theory of Relativity and in doing so became the first human being to gain an understanding of the fabric of the Space -Time Continuum. His name was Albert Einstein. A man considered to be one of the greatest thinkers in the field of science, mathematics and philosophy in the 20th Century, and quite possibly throughout human history. One of his more famous theories was the equation of e=mc2 (energy = matter x the speed of light2 ), proving that all energy is made up of light and matter. This knowledge would eventually lead to the "Manhattan Project" and resulted in the creation of the first nuclear weapons, the most powerful form of weaponry ever to be created by humans, only to be outlasted by powerful form of hydrogen arsenal. It was this, as well as many other theories which led to the birth of a new science called "Quantum Physics", the complex study of matter, energy, light and the bases of all life - the atom. Later on in his life, Einstein was allowed the opportunity to work with a very famous man named Nikola Tesla. Tesla was the leading scientist in the field of electricity at the time, so to Albert Einstein, it was a great notability for his career, as well as Tesla's. At a certain point in time however, when they met, they were approached by the United States government to undergo a Black Project, which would later become known as the ominous Philadelphia Experiment. The reason for the advance by the United States government was, in-part, due to the research that both Einstein and Tesla conducted together, during their brief meetings. Einstein came up with the Unified Field Theory, which spoke of the ability to jam certain types of radar, thereby making objects become invisible. It would be some time later in the late 1970's and early 1980's that the United States Air Force would complete this device, which would be code-named "Athena."

It had the potential to eliminate the radar bands which would be hitting the plane, by sending back a return signature of the given radar band. However, the project would be dropped due to lack of funding. The reason why Tesla was chosen as the se- cond leading scientist along with Albert Einstein was due to his knowledge and insight in generating a large amount of electricity with little or no effort. The United States Office of Naval Research would eventually hire both of them to conduct an experiment to try and make an object invisible to radar as well as actual sight. On June 12, 1939, the Navy prepared seven gigantic Tesla Coils and configured them according the calculations of Einstein's theory of Relativity and beamed them towards the USS Eldridge, a medium-sized battle cruiser berthed just outside Philadelphia. The results of the experiment were as stunning as they were awesome. The ship would vanish completely for about seven to ten minutes. When the ship reappeared, Naval researchers and scientists would discover the horrific results of the experiment. Several members of the crew were found decapitated and some seemed to have actually materialized as a part of the ship's hull, partly embedded into it's structure. It appeared that the experiment had caused a complete breakdown of the Einstein suggested Space -Time continuum.

Einstein would be forced to rethink his theory and write a very lengthy report on what occurred in the Black Project. It would be some years later, that he would again work with his Unified Field Theory. Yet instead of making an object invisible, he decided to put the theory of time-traveling to the test. Experimenting with ideas of using a large magnetic field and electricity to generate a small, controllable wormhole, he soon learned of the power and complexity of creating a rip in the fabric of time and space. It would take many grueling years working with colleagues and deciphering the multifaceted equation which would reveal how to slow down time and create the possibility of traveling backwards through it. It also would lead to the explanation of what exactly occurred during the Philadelphia Experiment in 1939. After some years, he was able to create a device which could be considered a "Time Machine" based on the theories of wormholes, black holes, magnets, and electricity. The name of the theory, which he would endow upon time traveling, would be "Chronoshifting." It would later be defined as "the ability of shifting from one place to another in a certain time window.". Thus Einstein named his "Time Machine" the "ChronoSphere."

Then it suddenly began to become clear that Einstein was having a second agenda that no one was aware of. He apparently reached the final stages of the research and completed the ChronoSphere device independently with the aid of only one of his most trusted assistants, without any knowledge of either his team or the supervisors of the project. The location was Trinity, New Mexico. The date was sometime in the year 1949. It would be this independent action of Albert Einstein to initiate the experiment on his own, that would separate our dimension from the Command And Conquer Universe. Einstein's motives are unclear, and we must consider the fact that this man's intelligence far out ways that of our own. Therefore, it will never truly be understood why he committed these acts. Nevertheless, the most plausible explanation is a humane one. World War II had cost an amount of human lives so numerous that no person can truly comprehend the consequences for those involved. It had caused severe damage to an entire continent, led to the creation and utilization of the most dreadful form of weaponry ever to be created and it brought a number of ideologies to the human mind that manifested themselves as both highly regenerative and severely hazardous to world peace. Therefore, we must consider the possibility that when Einstein realized he had the ability of accomplishing time-travel, he decided to use it to prevent the horror of World War II of ever taking place. In order to accomplish this aim, Einstein knew that there was only one way: take away the source out of the course of history. His Prime Directive was to eliminate Adolph Hitler and halt World War II. By doing this, the Jews would not suffer from the concentration camps in Europe, the naval war between America and Japan could be avoided and the releasing of the atom bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki would've never happened. The only way to do this was to disrupt the historical timeline and come into contact with Hitler himself. When the "Time-Traveler" would meet Hitler, the history of mankind would be changed, thus eliminating the existence of Hitler and ensuring the survival of all those who both directly as well as indirectly suffered under his destructive terror. That "Time-Traveler" would be Einstein. Throughout the course of World War II history, there was both only one place and time where Einstein would be able to come into personal contact with Adolph Hitler. A time when Hitler had not risen to power and a place where his exact whereabouts were completely confirmed; the place was Landsberg, Germany. The time was somewhere in 1924, when Hitler was released from custody after his initial coup on the German government several years back. By the laws of Quantum Physics, any entity that is in a state of Space-Time Continuum flux had to avoid physical contact with any entity native to the visited timeline. If any physical contact between the fluctuating entity and the native entity would happen, the theorized effect was something defined as a "Temporal Paradox". This "Paradox" would result in the immediate Space - Time restoration of the fluctuating entity, but cause a complete dimensional dislocation of the native entity. Apparently, Albert Einstein was very aware of this, and knew that all that had to be done to accomplish his mission wasto somehow establish physical contact with Adolph Hitler.

Somewhere in Trinity, New Mexico in the year 1949, The ChronoSphere was activated by Einstein's unidentified assistant and Einstein found himself standing in front of...

A prison in Landsberg, Germany, 1924.

Then the moment arrived. A young man stepped out of the prison door. Einstein walked toward him and said in German: "Herr Hitler!" (Mister Hitler!) The young man turned around, looked at him and answered: "Ja?  Was ist loos?  Ich habe keine Zeit um hier rund zu stehen.". (Yes? What is it?  I don't have time to be standing around here.)  In which Einstein prophetically replied:  "Ja.... ich ferstehe." (Yes... I know / I understand) Then he held out his hand towards Hitler as to invite him to shake hands. Hitler did so, and in touching Einstein, the theory of the Temporal Paradox became true. Einstein returned to 1949 New Mexico. Adolph Hitler had never even existed. It would be this fateful day that changed the history of mankind forever.

As Einstein found himself in the ChronoSphere laboratory again, he found his assistant waiting there for him. Realizing that due to their proximity to the ChronoSphere they had some minutes left before being integrated into the new timeline themselves, a short conversation took place in the ChronoSphere laboratory. A room that had become unreal, as for those last few moments, it was all that was left of the timeline that we tend to call reality. The assistant asked "....did you find him?" in which Einstein slowly replied: "Hitler is... out of the way...". The anxiety on the assis- tants's face was obvious: "Congratulations professor! With Hitler removed...!" But he never got to finish the sentence. Einstein raised his hand which silenced his assistant. While looking at his old pocket watch, which was apparently going berserk, he spoke the final words of our reality.

"Time will tell...sooner or later...time will tell..."

~ Albert Einstein, 1949 Trinity, New Mexico

3. The Great World War II

After the completion of Einstein mission, a great many things had changed. GPS was existing in the 1950's. The sophistication of rockets understood within 10 years. Satellites, super computers, etc... All accomplished before the 1960'ies arrived. One of the many examples of the changes was the Philadelphia Experiment turning out to be a success, and in turn, the United States Government declassified the project and passed it out to countries who were in the United Nations. But most importantly, World War 2 had never taken place. Einstein went out to accomplish the impossible, and succeeded. Yet, in those final moments in the Space - Time isolated lab, he had a feeling his work was not done correctly and there might be some drastic consequences in what he did. This terrifying notion came when he gazed at his pocket watch after returning from his trip. He noticed that the watch had been going haywire and that on his watch, time itself had stopped. But it was his own ironic statement which he said to his assistant that would haunt him in those last moments.

"Time will tell...sooner or later...time will tell..."

The reason for this remark will forever remain a mystery, but deep down inside, Einstein seemed to think that what he had done was a horrible mistake and that mankind as he knew it may be in grave danger.

In the early 1950'ies, the already established United Nations noticed that the Soviet Union was becoming a Super Power in the world and was beginning to build up a vast army, as well as progress in the technological field faster than anyone ever imagined. Within a few short years, the Soviets were able to break the speed of sound and have the capability of launching a nuclear warhead. Under the rule of Stalin, the Soviet Union would undergo a drastic change as they began to build up in strength and intelligence. There was a purpose though, and that would soon be announced to the world when Stalin would launch the first of a series of attacks on Europe. Although Hitler was gone, Stalin still remained. He would take his place in the role of historical global conquest, and would be far worse in military strength, determination, quantity of troops, and especially the quality of his war technology. Nicolo Tesla was no more part of United States Scientist: He was trusted comrade of the Soviet Union and the Great Red Army. The intensity of war would reach its peak as the Soviet-Union blanketed most of Eastern Europe in an "Iron Curtain." This war between the Soviet-Union and the Allied European Nations would later be known as...

"The Great World War II."

4. Fight for Freedom

By the time Einstein realized his mistake of interfering with the natural Timeline, it was already too late. The effects of the ChronoSphere wore off and he himself and his assistant were integrated into the new timeline, completely unaware of what they had once done. The Iron Curtain began to fall upon all of Europe and the Allies (the military unification of the beleaguered European Nations) were left with a bigger problem then they could have ever anticipated. Unlike Hitler's concentration camps and mass killings, Stalin decided to take all of Europe by sheer force. Hitler and the Axis Power had taken about 1/4 of Europe in World War II. In this "Great World War II," Stalin would take approximately 3/4 of Europe, leaving only England and some other countries in the wake of the destruction. The Chaos Theory had taken place. It would take some time before the Allies would realize the power which the Soviet Union possessed. The fight for the freedom of Europe from the Soviets had begun but it might already be too late, as the United Nations was reluctant to come to the aid of the European allies into a war that could turn worldwide very easily.

Einstein's plan to avoid a worldwide armed conflict was a failure, as all of Europe was under Red Alert. The Soviets had a powerful army and air force, consisting of MiGs, Mammoth Tanks, and V2 Rocket Launchers. Their quality, as well as their quantity, was the best in the world at the time. The European Allies (under the brilliant command of German General Gunther Von Esling and Greek Colonel Nikos Stavros) would prove to be a worthy adversary however, as they managed to battle the Soviet invaders for many months regardless the unimaginable losses of lives and territory, desperately trying to get the "neutral" United Nations on their side against Stalin. Having the genius of the Albert Einstein of the new timeline available to them, they would be able to use many new technological devices that would highly aid in the war. The Chronoshift technology, which was indirectly responsable for the entire situation, was an example of this, as it helped outsmarting the power of the Soviet war machine.

Eventually, due to the near heroism of the European Allies in holding ground against the Soviet seat of power, and due to the fact that the United Nations became aware that Europe was just the first step in Stalin's eyes, several of the world's most powerful nations including the United States of America, India and Japan turned against the Soviet Union and allied themselves with the European defenders. After several months, the Allies finally broke through the last lines of Soviet defenses and Stalin was killed in the last siege on Moscow.

The surviving Allies would win the war, realizing that their victory had cost them all but their lives. Europe was completely decimated. Over 100 million human lives were lost.

" When you kill one... it is a tragedy; when you kill a million ... it is a statistic. "

~ Josef Stalin

World War III - Red Alert II

“Listen, I’m not your pet, Mr. President”

~Premier Alexander Romanov

1. After the Great World War II:

After the defeat of the USSR in 1960s and the end of the Great World War II, USSR under Josef Stalin began to collapse. The only element that kept Soviet Union running – the shock and terror – was gone, and there were only despair and destruction left. Soviet Union needed something special. After successive rule of Leonid Brezhnev to Konstantin Chernenko, Soviet Union was peaceful yet stabilizing, however everything collapsed with sudden death of Chernenko. United States, feeling that the Soviet Union under new rule can be a great new marketplace for growing economy of Unites States, picks someone high ranking in Soviet Union that are not as charismatic as Josef Stalin – his name was Alexander Romanov. Under his rule, Soviet Union became stabilized again, and the control of massive weaponry the mighty Red Army once had was no longer existed in black market. As the Soviet Union getting stabilized as fast as United States expects to be, Alexander Romanov hires a mysterious man named Yuri. His look was funny, unlike any other soviet-standard clothes. His head was covered with some metallic and plastic tubes. CIA send investigator to dig up who is this mysterious man, yet most man reported that he had terrible accident on car crash, and due to severe brain damage he had to wear those SF-looking device, if not MIA at all. CIA interpreted this as a minor problem or not a problem at all, therefore did not even filed to be reported to President Michael Dugan, the President of the United States in 1980s. As Yuri in right-hand of the Soviet Union’s leader Alexander Romanov, UN Security Council approved Soviet Union’s Rearmament under the reason of “Self Defense” from various terrorist organizations, yet it is not certain whether the council members were actually ‘brainwashed’ in a way. However at the end all the UN security council member that attended to the meeting were either died in accident or assassinated in ‘loud’ way, mainly home-explosion due to dynamites and C-4s. Strangely, every file related to the Rearmament of Soviet Union was either disappeared or burned with bearer.

“Mr. President. I’m afraid we have a heck of situation.”

~U.S. Major General Carville

2. Soviet Sudden Attack

Alexander Romanov was not an easy man to control for United States, as it is proven by the war it caused. After the rearmament of the Soviet Union, the good old Tesla technology have boomed in Soviet Union Battle Labs, as well as known-to-be-most-powerful arsenal human being have: the Nuclear Weapons. Soviet Nuclear Threat was always the dagger in the heart for the European nations who already undergone the terrible and blood-striking Nuclear Silos in The Great World War II. However there are no assurance now since UN itself passed rearmament. Nonetheless if the UN council rejected the rearmament of the Soviet Union, Alexander Romanov probably did it anyway. Millions of enlisted people joined the once again mighty Red Army; its arsenals pouring out from the war factories; new revolutionary war machines marching through deep down in Ukraine tundra and cold Siberia. However all of this was hidden in secrecy under supervision of General Vladimir and Yuri, and the act-of-puppet from Alexander Romanov himself to President Dugan of United States. CIA never got any intelligence from traditional spies in Soviet Union – most of spies gone missing like vapor. Many arsenals transported to now-communist Mexico and Castro-controlled Cuba. Under the secrecy and the local manufacturing factories up and running, Soviet Union far outnumbered former glory. The war was inevitable, and the clap sounds if one hits and one stays. At the D-day of the launch, the pleasant morning of sunny day, President Dugan receives an urgent message from Pentagon – a very urgent yet unbelievable it sounds. Maj. General Carville sends up a message that Soviet invasion is all over the country borders except Canada – Eastern Seaboard, Western Seaboard, and the Mexico-US border. As Dugan orders to check the NORAD system once again, he also has some optimism of this resolving in politics as always. Kremlin, at the same time, Premier Alexander Romanov takes the phone. As Dugan offers a peaceful resolution, Romanov rejects. Dugan threatens that US is the superpower and will retaliate, Romanov hangs up the phone. Yuri, however, was taking up the phone. Dugan orders Maj. Gen. Carville to launch ICBM Nuclear Attack on Soviet Russia. However after the launch code was accepted, the silo door did not open, and the Nuclear Warheads did not launched at all – in fact they were all fried before it was combined and become critical mass and produce huge thermonuclear explosion. The reason was not figured out until later in the war. United States was no longer a Nuclear Power. Every single silo they attempted to launch Nuclear Warhead was either mysteriously disabled to open silo doors resulting in self-explosion, or captured by Soviet Special Forces dropping from sky. As Kirov zeppelin bomber soared the skies of Los Angeles and New York, the New York Harbor was covered with Soviet Warships and Assault Drops. Emergency Broadcast System was repeating “All Enlisted People report to designated Area – This is NOT a drill” with loud sirens, only to be replaced by Soviet Propaganda. Amphibious drops were quick and caused most of the destruction of New York’s iconic symbols including the Statue of Liberty. Assault forces from Mexico literally crushed anything on sight with its mighty tank divisions. United States was in grave danger. However, the utter destruction of the United States was not the intention of Premier Romanov, as he had agenda to spread Soviet ideology to all nations. Also he was not an military maniac like Hitler; he was truly an politician, and the easier way to accomplish the convincing part of politics was with Yuri. Yuri’s ability to control mind, which obviously called the “Mind Control” was key to this. Yuri’s Mind Control technology was implanted in key cities such as New York and Washington D.C. United States was falling apart not because of destruction but because of unintentional betrayal.

3. Battle for United States

United States were officially under soviet control. With Maj. Gen. Carville and President Dugan under Soviet Mind Control, there was strong propaganda going on with President Dugan to entire United States to effectively end this war.

Obviously I have to think about connection of RA2-Yuri-Dawn chain. RA2-Yuri is obviously following the allied supremacy. I assumed RA-RA2 link to be allied storyline (which original author also assumed). Yuri-Dawn relation is fragile, and I am thinking of Gread Depression after the Yuri war.

Is this just too long? --Kasugurami 09:33, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * RA2 and YR are not canonical. It was stated on Petroglyph forums that the RA2 storyline was the result of tinkering with time. Also, any possible connections are very shaky, as there is no plausible explanation for the loss of technology between RA2 and Tiberian Dawn. Move Fiend 09:40, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * No Plausible Answer, Yes, yet we can still think of solution. Just "trash it" isn't going to solve anything. Great Depression after war is possible, as well as sabotage of NOD (just thinking) or simple burocrat dump might possible. YR was another factor in war, which later merged into RA era. Also the RA2 officially ended in mid-allied storyline. --Kasugurami 09:46, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Arguments for Allied ending leading onto TWI:

 * Good guys normally win.


 * World would be messed up if Soviets won, so how would GDI exist?


 * Most of the time, the 'Good Guys' ending is considered to be canon, such as with TS assuming GDI won TWI and FS assuming GDI again won TS.

Arguments for Sovet Ending

 * Cutscene implies that Kane takes over.


 * Which would give him the necessary influence to make Nod a world power.


 * If the Soviets "won" GWWII (Red Alert 1), they wouldn't take over the world- they would just be powerful. This is different from the Allied campaign, because if the Allies won the Soviets would be completely crushed.


 * If the Allies won GWWII and crushed the Soviets completely, then how would Nod come to be powerful if it has no Soviet powerbase.

Current Conclusions (not final - Discuss them!!
I suppose I am biased slightly towards my views...that's why this is a talk page. At the moment it seems the Allied ending would lead onto Red Alert 2. I.e. Allies set up Romanov as puppet, and Nod has no power so it never comes to anything. We need to come to a conclusion so this can become an official reference page (see Template:Help_Navigation). Snow93 12:14, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Response from Dthaiger
The Allies win the Great World War II, which explains how GDI was started. Remember, it was Tiberium that made Nod a world power, rather than their already having the Soviet empire. Furthermore, they really didn't even have the Soviet power, ven if the Soviets won - because with the death of Stalin the Soviet Empire would be thrown into turmoil. One interesting idea is that GDI actually isn't a result of either the Allied or the Soviet campaigns - it's a result of the Ant missions, which would then be placed after the end of the Allied campaign. Evidence for this from a continuity perspective includes: Use of both Rangers (Humvees) and Mammoth Tanks on the same side (as well as other units, I'm not exactly sure, except therewas some crossover) The fact that both the United States and Russia are considered GDI strongholds during the First Tiberium War. The interesting fact that there were gold colored units during the Ant campaign - ie, GDI colors. The fact that GDI stared out as a Black Ops group. I'm almost certain that an operation like the ant missions would be handled by a black ops unit. --Dthaiger 01:00, 13 May 2006 (UTC).

DarkMastero's Response
Why not allow Generals articles anyway? Label them if you want though. I admit they don't seem to relate to the story line but it does bear the C&C logo.

Continuity
From the perspective of this Wiki being inside the Command and Conquer Universe, obviously only one set of events takes place, and everything else would be speculation. Therefore, I have tried to write my articles so that as much as possible of both campaigns is written into the 'actual history,' even if I have to change certain things to make things consistent. Obviously, I can't do this with the Second Tiberium War, or the Red alert storylines, but I've tried to do this with the Firestorm Crisis, as well as The First Tiberium War. Obviously the Generals plotline needs no help.
 * But we're not doing Generals in Cnc Wiki, right? --Snow93 09:00, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Tiberium Dawn / Sun
Please look over my First Tiberium War, and Firestorm Crisis pages that I've cooked up. I'm willing to change them if you think there's a continuity issue, especially with First Tiberium War - I was looking for a way to fit in both campaigns, because due to the in-universe nature of this Wiki, whatever doesn't occur, we never talk about.
 * I think having as much as possible of both campaigns is fine, but if Renegade's storyline conflicts with the Nod campaign, we go with Renegade (I think)Snow93 08:59, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

How might renegade's campaign conflict with the Nod campaign? I dunno, just in case it did. Snow93 13:47, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment from Agaiz
About that RA2 issue: There are pictures of RA2 Apocalypse Tanks in Kane's temple in Renegade. Whether this is just an easter egg or actually a relevant link between the stories I don't know. On the other hand, what happened to Kane. Do we just not see him around in the Kremlin or is it because it's a parallel universe? And there is more... is Lt. Eva just another easter egg or a reference to GDI's AI? I mean she might have become the voice for all EVA units during the developement process because commanders liked her voice? But that's just speculation.

Oh yeah, and what about C&C3? I just saw the Black Hand page you wrote. Previews of C&C3 indicate that the Black Hand is involved in attacking GDI during the Third Tiberium War. So should this already be included or not? I think it should, it makes this wiki more interesting because there is 'fresh' information, not just from old games.

Exactly, I was just about to mention the wealth of information from places such as, especially the pictures which are actually "fact files" (i.e. with information on them) --Snow93 17:41, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

More Dthaiger
As stated by APOC, anything at this stage is still early development. Until we actually have the game, I figure C&C 3 doesn't exist (Besides, we need a consistent timescheme, we can't be writing some articles from 2032, and others from 2047.) As for RA2, I think the best way to deal with it is:

1. RA1

2. Ant Missions Black Ops 9 formed

3. Do not include RA2

4. TWI

5. TWII

6. Firestorm.

Comments?

I changed it because I realized that it's very hard to exclude a lot of articles. For example, let's say that we allow RA2 in, and then it is revealed in TWIII that RA2 had absolutely nothing to do with it. In that case, we would be obliged to take out the RA2 articles, or to at least tag them as a 'Historical Simulation,' or something like that, which could be very inconvenient.

DarkMastero's Reposnse
I feel that they are planning to make RA2 in continuality. The introduction of the Time Machine is a clear hint of this because the major plot hole was the years getting off. I imagen that at some point they will travel back in time and somehow help the events of Tiberian Dawn get into place. Likely whenever they get around to making another game in the Red Alert universe (which won't be soon seeing as how they've chosen to do a Tiberian game next...). --DarkMastero 18:41, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

--Dthaiger 19:47, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Make a different namespace for alternative universes? --Snow93 19:10, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Like adding 'Red Alert 2 Universe' (or possibly 'Generals Universe') to every article? We could do that, I'd love to see some RA2 articles in here - seperated from the original universe database. Main page should notice users about this e.g. 'This wiki is mainly about the original C&C universe (including RA1, TD, Ren, TS) - for articles on the parallel universes (RA2, Gen) please refer to their respective pages --Agaiz 07:52, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I believe they are all related, but not linearly. To me it seems as if this occurred: Einstein nerfs Hitler, RA1 begins

- If Soviets win RA1, the USSR may soon collapse with internal conflict & a provisional govt joins the G8 along with the reestablished Allies, then proceed to TD (possibly include the Ant missions to cause a military establishment between the countries)

- If Allies win RA1, then RA2 & YR happen

TD: GDI wins, defeats main threats of Nod

TS: Nod power resurges using world uncertainty and utilization of tiberium, etc. etc. --143.88.130.167 15:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Continuity issue:

How is it that GDI can use the ion cannon at the end of the Firestorm Crisis, but they can't contact any orbital communications stations because of ion interference. --Dthaiger 00:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Well at the end of FS they reestablish the link to GDI orbital command... but you're right, before they do they should not be able to contact any satellite. Maybe it's just something where the game designers didn't pay attention. Like with the timeline issues we've discussed on the history talk page. Speaking of which: I've talked to some people in a forum about this. The consensus was that the first war began with a terrorist attack in 1995 and escalated into a global scale conflict which lasted for three years. Renegade was really supposed to be after that and the fact that Kane is in there can be explained in two ways: the first option is that we only see him on screen or as a hologram so he might very well be connected to CABAL like in FS or in some secret hiding place where he went to after the destruction of his temple. The other explanation would be that the developers didn't care about continuity and just wanted to put as much C&C in there as possible. In order to fit Renegade into our timeline I believe we have to stick with the first option - that's also what PlanetCnC did for their Encyclopedia. They left out a lot but the chapter about the Black Hand is clearly set after the first war. Timeline will look like this then:

1946 (they mention GDI here in some RA1 video by the way) 1995 Meteor, terrorist attack, beginning of the conflict 1998 First War ends 2020 Black Hand, first Kane sightings, ReGenesis 2030 official return of Kane, Second War

I mean Hassan has to have gained power somewhere between 2020 and 2030 - and his temple is in Egypt, just like the one you destroy at the end of Renegade. Slavik also suceeds Raveshaw as the leader of the Black Hand if I'm not mistaken. --Agaiz 08:16, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

According to the TS manual, sightings of Kane became relatively commonplace during the period between the first and second Tiberium Wars. --Dthaiger 14:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I know the Ion Cannon discussion is likely dead but I'd like to suggest that maybe the Ion Cannon is lower in orbit then GDI's space station. I recall CABAL mentioning that the interference was in the upper atmosphere so if the Ion Cannon was lower then the interference they still may be able to contact it. --63.65.45.98 05:08, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Heres my Idea the war starts 1994 because the fighting was going on before in Africa GDI was formed because of Nod power in the Balkans Tiberium appears transforing Nod from a third rate Al Quadea'sh group to a world power Renegade and end of GDI and Nod campains take place in 2010 because a) it say's decades have taken place between TD and TS and b) because that contradicts EA's 2019 idea Jamhaw 18:36, 8 February 2007 (UTC)jamhaw
 * Oh yeah Kucan says in an interview that Renegade takes place the same time as TD. Jamhaw 18:37, 8 February 2007 (UTC)jamhaw

Continuity
Now that we have an article about it, we have a choice. I can either create a 'Non-Canon' template, or we can figure out a way to include it.

The other thing I think would be utterly awesome is to get some more people to look over our 'continuity / history pages' (Once we have them all together), and then see if APOC will look over them.

Sincerely, Dthaiger 20:38, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

No, Renegade is clearly the last few missions of C&C. --Snow93 14:21, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

No the temple in TD is in Sarajevo, Bosnia the one that Havoc destroys however is in Egypt. So they can't be the same --Agaiz 14:58, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Where does it say that the Renegade one is in Egypt? --Snow93 08:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

In one of the missions I think - also you see that the temple in Sarajevo is a different setting. The one in Egypt is surrounded by desert/canyon, Kane's temple has trees in the background. --Agaiz 09:00, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

That's unlucky, they can't do it perfectly. I think that everyone in the community would agree that the end of Renegade is the end of Tiberian Dawn, just from a different person's viewpoint. --Snow93 09:45, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Most of us agree on that. I'd like to ask: what about the differences in the uniforms and weaponry between TD and Renegade? Should this be treated as an evolution in arms technology or all this great art in Renegade should be ignored as non-canon?- This is an important question to me as I plan to edit some screenshots from Renegade and inplement them into the articles on characters/units from TD (as I tried in the [|minigunner article]). I don't want to work in vain- do I have the blessing of the community? --Johnny 10:22, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Include what does not contradict Tiberian Dawn (eg. black Hand details, bios of characters, weapon evolution (the Cobretti AR-70 as an evolution of the GAU-3 Eliminator and predecessor of the M16 Mk. II). Check existing articles to see how it was implemented (eg. Light Tank). Mikael Grizzly 10:33, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Kane Runs World
If the soviet ending were canoncical Kane would rule the world and nod would be uneccsarry to form Jamhaw 20:29, 30 August 2006 (UTC)jamhaw

That's what you might think, but in actual fact, if the Soviets won RA, they would only rule all of mainland Europe. Anyway, welcome to CnCWiki, Jamhaw, enjoy your time here. --Snow|93(talk) (Edward Lilley) 12:11, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually just because Kain killed Stalin and whats-her-name (Nadia) --Dthaiger 01:15, 13 November 2006 (UTC) it doesn't mean all of the Soviet Union will suddenly follow him, if anything he (Kane) would be a traitor. With them gone several other generals and leaders would likely fight for control of the Soviet Union which could cause it to collapse. --63.65.45.98 18:01, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I suppose so. The Brotherhood would most probably rise out of the ashes of the defeated Soviet Union. --Snow93 10:24, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Separate Universes
Now, I may have misunderstood, but I was lead to believe that there is now, officially, no connection between the Tiberium and RA timelines, and that they are now separate universes. If that's the case, shouldn't there be separate entries for similar buildings in each universe? DWolf2k2 06:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

There are. Such as Construction Yard and Mammoth Tank for the Tiberium universe and RA2:Construction Yard and RA2:Mammoth Tank for the RA2 universe. --24.172.193.251 17:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Hate for Generals
Also, why do so many users here seem to dislike Generals so much? I understand it's a grand departure from the rest of C&C, but it's still a pretty good game.DWolf2k2 23:02, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * As you might have guessed, I agree with you. The trouble with it for the 'old-skool' fans was that it was such a departure from many of the series' traditional themes and ideas. Not only did it not feature Tiberium or the Soviets/Allies, it also changed fundamental gameplay aspects. For example, many players resented the shift of the toolbar to the bottom, the addition of 'worker' or 'peon' units to construct buildings, the lack of FMV, etc. Personally, while I can understand their annoyance at the time (they were looking forward to another Tiberium game), now that C&C 3 has been released I hope that people can see Generals as a game that, while lacking links to the other titles in the series, is still very fun to play. In particular, I think Generals (with ZH and patches) is one of the most finely balanced games for multiplayer, with all those different sides perfectly in tune with one another. Oh, and the 'modern warfare' theme, er, rocks my boat. Makron1n 14:05, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I make a point of saying that while thw storyline is utter rubbish, it is a good game. I play it lots and lots (yes, really, I do). So I agree with Makron1n. The only ting I don't like about it is the storyline, so as this wiki is quite a lot about storyline/universe, it might seem as though I don't like it. If we were solely talking about technical gameplay issues it would seem as though I loved it. I generally feel the same about RA2, but the storyline is at least funny in it. --Snow93(talk)(contrib) 13:52, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Here's one for ya
lookie

A screenshot from Red Alert (1): Retaliation from psx...

I know the argument has been going on for very long, though presence of general Carville in RA1 should be seen as a connection between the two games large enough to yet again think over either treating RA2 as a part of tib universe or RA1 as a separate universe...--Johnny 15:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope. Just because a character has been re-used doesn't mean the games are connected, especially since he wasn't in the games released for PC. However, if you could point out Kane in RA2 or Yuri in RA, that would be a connection. Mikael Grizzly 15:47, 29 April 2007 (UTC)